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Poster: Max Chorak Date: Dec 6, 2006 10:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Some questions and comments

Firstly.. if that IS a word..

I kinda noticed that Jerry is the only one FOR the most part that really takes off and does his own thing. I mean for buddha's sake, the man is a HOG! he will try to take people's leads, make his lead so far that it takes over someone possible lead...

Anyone else notice it? I mean.. i like it.. but I like weir's lead too a lot.. even though it's repetitive.. and I'd love to hear some phil. There are a lot of instances (basically I say a lot, but the fact is, I listen to GD non stop.. literally.. probably 5 hours a day) where phil starts to go off, but jerry takes over. I don't mind this, but I wanted to confirm or deny that others thought or didn't think this way.


SECONDLY,

any guitar players here? What GD tunes do you play? If you could, i'd greatly appreciate it if we emailed eachother based on how you play certain songs. like.. a chord list. I play jack straw my own kind of way.. and stella blue.. but stella blue I havent modified for my own taste. The chord chart I found on it seems perfect.


thank you all

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Poster: Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer Date: Dec 7, 2006 1:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

Lets face it, Garcia basically was the Grateful Dead. Especially the first 10 years. He had a major hand in every song, every lick, every melody. As much as I love the band, Garcia was the glue. There is no band without him.

As far as Jerry cutting off Phil when he is going off, please give some specific examples. I would love to listen and get back to you. I'm pretty well versed in all eras and can not EVER remember thinking Garcia cut off anyone, let alone Phil. Sometimes I wish he would have rescued Bobby though....

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Poster: patkelley Date: Dec 7, 2006 11:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

I think you might be mistaking miscommunication with being a HOG. I pick up on it sometimes that Garcia solos when someone else is supposed to or fills in when someone else is too slow, but you have to keep in mind that these guys didnt practice really. I love Weir but I'd rather listen to Garcia play one note over and over than listen to a Weir solo. With time, you'll begin to get the nuances of Grateful Dead music and it'll begin to make more and more sense. But I wouldn't characterize Garcia as a HOG for other people's stage time.

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Poster: JodyC Date: Dec 7, 2006 8:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

Hey Max- I posted a thread last night about a Dark star from 10/28/72 with a Stanley Clark referenceto Phil. He gets a fair amount of leeway jamwise, you may want to give it a stream when you get a chance. Maybe Jerry's hogging the lead has something to do with him being a demi-god.

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Poster: TheGreat_and_Knowledgable Date: Dec 7, 2006 10:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

most guitarists steal leads or are the lead all the time. The guitar is the most powerful lead instrument and in jams usually sticks out the most

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 7, 2006 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

I listen to the Jerry and Dicky Betts 73 jamathon at RFK almost weekly just to hear how they interact. I especially listen for the third guitar part as sometimes it's almost indistiguishable from Jerry and Betts. I've heard it quoted before that no ones guitar was louder than Jerrys and if you look at the massive McIntosh power amps that he used, you'll know why. At least until the 80's when both him and Weir started dicking around with overdrives and other effects, Garcia's tone was loud and glassy clear.

Spend an hour with Betts and Garcia at JFK 73, and you'll find little merit in the quote supposedly attributed to Butch Trucks. What do drummers know anyway? I can see Butch dumping on Mickey Hart, (I really can) cause it's his thing. Sacrilage, I know, but Butch and Jamoe made a better two drummer lineup than Billy and Mickey. (For solo drumming, I'd take Billy over all of 'em.)

Further, these jams were totally unrehearsed and if there were miscues on leads, it's easily overlooked by the lack of time spent together. What they were able to pull off, with that in mind, was incredible.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 7, 2006 5:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

Max: In case it hasn't struck you, Garcia was the featured artist in the band. If anything, he was gracious in allowing Weir to take a solo, because frankly it's not Aces forte. As for keys, in the 70's there wasn't the technology to push a grand through a sound system to compete with even toned down electric band. This was one fo Garcia's peeves about Keith, as he wouldn't use a synth or B3. Once Brent was on board, Garcia gave him more than enough room to stretch out...but face it, they weren't there for the keys.

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Poster: NotQuiteintheWayYet Date: Dec 7, 2006 4:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

I am on the side that thinks Jerry was more sympathetic to what was going on around him than most. besides, in many ways he was the leader of the band, but I have always though Phil was the glue holding things together and Billy keeping it going. Actually, I can think of many times when Jerry seemed like he was in a groove and hadn't resolved his lead when Bobby steps all over him with his next verse of cowboy lyrics. Also, listen to how many times Jerry plays fantastic lead under Bobby's lyrics--he doesn't overpower, yet adds incredible depth to the very fabric of the song.

Also perhaps more attention to Phil throughout--if you listen closely he is soloing most of the time, yet also keeping things together at the same time.

I'm an old head, and can't seem to find myself listening to much of anything beyond 82 though, and I tend to stay in the 70s with a break for something like the late november 80 run or perhaps 8-10-82 ish things.

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Poster: Max Chorak Date: Dec 7, 2006 5:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

Johnny: I never said Garcia was showing off.. HOWEVER it is true that he does hog the leads. And I do love them. there *are* times when he overkills a bit, but it's alright.

I play lead guitar too, (I wish I could play rhythm, that's why bobby is my angel) and I tend to hog up when i'm playing with people. Ever since watching the GD on DVD i learned how to flag people down just to hog more :)


Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer: You can't be serious! Well versed in all the era's but you haven't heard Garcia cut anybody off or take over their lead spot, WHEN they have started to lead already?

Anyhoo, as for phil cutoff's..... ever listened to eyes of the world?! There are times when Garcia is benevolent, and lets phil have soooo much time to lead, and other times when he does not let him.. as for examples.. I'll post 'em as I find 'em


Oh and thank you all for your guitar related posts.. I appreciate.


P.S. patkelley: I am going up to SF in 9 days.. could you please recommend for me a show to put on my mp3 player?

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Poster: Fishead Date: Dec 8, 2006 7:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

HOWEVER it is true that he does hog the leads. And I do love them. there *are* times when he overkills a bit, but it's alright.


i never ever ever heard anyone who's into the dead complain about jerry's leads being hogged/overkill...dude you are a trip...
yeah give me weir who's a rythm guitarist the spotlight -to do what exactly ?? jerry is the lead guitarist ..that's why they are called lead guitarist to hog the spotlight...you really want to hear a hog/overkill guitarist -go listen to phish ..

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Dec 7, 2006 5:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

hey max check out 6-20-80 alaska the not fade away rocks!!! aud here on archive.nice road music..peace

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Poster: BryanE Date: Dec 7, 2006 7:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

Not a particularly shy man when it came to showing off his chops, was he? Either I read it or heard it in an interview that Butch Trucks from the Allmans got kind of hacked off at him at for what he saw as Jerry stepping all over Dickey Betts's soloing while he was sharing the stage with the Brothers at some point. Might have been at the Watkins Glen show.

I use the chord arrangement for Stella Blue that I learned from the old Wake Of The Flood songbook: Verse: E Emaj7 Asus A em C7 B/Chorus: E A E/Bridge: B E A-E B

After I get back home later today, I'll pick up my guitar to refresh my memory as to how Rubin & Cherise and Lazy River Road work.


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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Dec 7, 2006 12:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

WOW Max! I see it completely 180 out of phase with you. As a lead guitarist I think Jerry was one of the most gracious and understated one I can think of. Well maybe not understated ( that'd be more like JJ Cale ) but I've NEVER gotten the show offy thing from Jerry which is one of the things I love about his playing and the Dead, it's a collaborative thing. That's intersting about Butch Trucks because I've never heard him step over people, if anything I've heard him step up when no one else is and wait his turn. I'm not a big fan of " soloing" just to solo, I like the ensemble thing. Listen to bands like Phish and WSP both who I like and you'll get endless " look at me look at me I'm jamming". Same thing with blues - man the most boring job as a musician would have to be in a Chicago blues band ( I IV V I IV V chord progression over and over ) unless you're the LEAD guitarist. I read a blurb from Mike Gordon talking about what an UNSELFISH guitarist Garcia was ( funny considering I took it also as a offhanded slap at Trey )and that's what I've allways heard too.

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Poster: TheGreat_and_Knowledgable Date: Dec 7, 2006 1:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Some questions and comments

phish had songs specific to certain people, trey did most of the hogging action, but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Page had key solos quite often, and gordon ripped through lines in a comparative way to lesh. Bass solos dont come often, they can play "lead" bass but they'll always be behind someone else